On February 21, the Government of Bangladesh honored Joe Winter - a British educator and poet, with the International Mother Language Award 2025. The award was presented by Chief Adviser Muhammad Yunus at a ceremony held at the International Mother Language Institute in the capital. Born in London in 1943, Joe Winter is renowned for translating the poetry of Rabindranath Tagore and Jibanananda Das into English. His notable translations include 'Gitanjali' and 'Ruposhi Bangla', among a couple of poetry books.

The day Joe Winter received this prestigious accolade from the Bengal of his favourite poets, he spoke with the Dhaka Courier. The conversation features his journey into poetry translation, his experience of working on Rabindranath and Jibanananda, and his emotion upon receiving the prestigious award.

Dhaka Courier: You are known for translating Bengali poetry into English. How has your experience been with Rabindranath Tagore's and Jibanananda Das's works?

Joe Winter: It's been fascinating. Tagore was a great classical poet who modernized to some extent but never became a full-fledged modernist. In contrast, Jibanananda Das was a pure modernist. Initially, I wasn't interested in him because I struggle with modernism in literature and art. But one evening, a friend convinced me to read 'Mrityur Agey' (Before Death), and I was blown away. That moment changed everything.

Tagore, in my view, is the greatest lyrical poet in any language, while Jibanananda is one of the purest modernists. His poetry masterfully merges beauty and the struggles of modern life. 'Ruposhi Bangla' which I translated in its entirety, is a prime example. The way he captures nature and existence is extraordinary. At the same time, he writes about urban alienation and the loss of old beliefs in poems like 'Bodh' (Sensation). This succession - from Tagore's lyrical depth to Jibanananda's modernist complexity - is something I don't think exists anywhere else in the world.

Dhaka Courier: Coming from a different continent, what motivated you to translate these works?

Joe Winter: I've been a poet since I was 19. When I moved to Kolkata at 50, I naturally wanted to explore Bengali literature. A friend introduced me to Tagore's 'Hariye Jaoa' (Lost), and from just that one poem, I recognized a genius - and that led me to read and translate more.

I resisted Jibanananda at first, but I eventually connected deeply with his poetry. However, I must admit I haven't had the same experience with many modern poets. Their work often doesn't resonate with me the way Jibanananda's does. His poetry is complex, yet rich in imagery - deeply tied to life, circumstances, and the world around him.

Dhaka Courier: How do you interpret and convey these elements in your translations?

Joe Winter: People emphasize differences between languages and cultures, but similarities are much stronger. We all experience love, loss, survival, and the search for meaning. Jibanananda's themes are universal, which makes it easier to connect with his poetry. His imagery constantly surprises me, but I was able to tune into his wavelength.

Take 'Shokun' (The Vultures) for example. When translating, I always preserve the original rhyme scheme unless there's a compelling reason not to. With Jibanananda's 'Ruposhi Bangla', I maintained the sonnet structure because it carries the poem's musicality. Too many translations strip poetry of its musical depth, which I find distressing.

Dhaka Courier: Any literary element that particularly stood out to you?

Joe Winter: The imagery! Jibanananda wrote of a "stormy elephant" as imagery - it's fantastic. Only poets like him and Tagore could do that.

Dhaka Courier: You've translated several of Tagore's works, including 'Gitanjali'.

Joe Winter: Yes, I've translated several books, including 'Gitanjali', the epic collection of Tagore's poetry - all 157 poems.

Dhaka Courier: What was the biggest challenge in translating both Tagore and Jibanananda?

Joe Winter: The challenge is always to reach into the depth of a poet's mind and express their psychic energy, delicate details, and artistic unity. A translator's job is to pull these threads together into something that flows naturally in the new language.

Tagore and Jibanananda were very different, and Jibanananda did not translate his own works. When Tagore translated 'Gitanjali' into English, he created something new rather than a direct translation. I, on the other hand, aimed and tried to capture the poet's state of mind at the time of writing rather than impose my own.

Dhaka Courier: Do you find similarities between Jibanananda's works and any British poets?

Joe Winter: No, not really. If I name one, let's say T S Eliot, who was a brilliant modernist but was somewhat trapped in his intellectuality. Jibanananda, on the other hand, had a broader emotional range; he could connect with ordinary people in a way Eliot couldn't. That's what makes him unique.

Dhaka Courier: You visited Barishal, Jibanananda's birthplace. How was that experience?

Joe Winter: It was deeply moving. I walked the same paths he had a century ago, under the same trees. He was always mentally connected to Barishal, even when he lived elsewhere. Despite his internal struggles, he found solace in nature. Being there helped me understand him even more.

Dhaka Courier: Have you worked on any other Bengali literary figures?

Joe Winter: A little bit on Lalon Fakir - I translated about 25 of his songs. But my heart remains with Tagore and Jibanananda.

Dhaka Courier: You attended the Ekushey Book Fair this year. How was the experience?

Joe Winter: Yes, I went yesterday (February 20). I loved it! The atmosphere was amazing. It's a place where people truly connect with books. We have nothing like it in Europe.

Dhaka Courier: You produced adaptations of Old English and Middle English poems from the 10th, 11th, and 14th centuries. One is Beowulf, which is set in pagan Scandinavia. Another is Pearl, which is from medieval England. Can you share more about that experience?

Joe Winter: 'Beowulf' is the great Anglo-Saxon epic, created sometime between 700 and 1000 AD - and 'Pearl' is from 14th-century England. Studying these works helped guide me in my approach to translating Bengali literature. Just as 'Beowulf' reflects ancient Germanic traditions, Bengali literature has its own deep historical roots that deserve more translation.

Dhaka Courier: Do you think Bengali literature remains inaccessible due to a lack of translations?

Joe Winter: Yes, and it's a pity. There should be more translations of older Bengali literature. Modern Bengali poetry has received attention, but we need more of the classics translated to understand the roots of this great literary tradition.

Dhaka Courier: Today is a big day for you. How do you feel about receiving the International Mother Language Award 2025?

Joe Winter: Incredible. I'm in my eighties now, so such honors might have meant more when I was younger - but this is still a wonderful moment. When I was told about it, I was asked if I wanted someone to accept it on my behalf. I said, "No, I'm coming. This is important to me." I traveled 5,000 miles for it, and I have no regrets.

I'm far more known in India and Bangladesh than in England. Most of my publications are self-published, and I'm not widely recognized as a writer in my home country. But here, I am known, and I appreciate that.

Dhaka Courier: Our nation is honored to honor you as well..

At the end of the interview, Joe Winter asked if he could read his translated version of Jibanananda Das's famous poem, 'Abar Ashibo Phire' (I Shall Return Again), adding delight to the conversation.

"I want to read it aloud because it will give you a perspective of how I approach translation," he said. "And one of the things I love about this poem is how Jibanananda envisions reincarnation - not just in human form but as birds, animals, even a child. It's a deeply moving perspective on life and continuity."

The interview was conducted on the beautiful Spring morning of February 21, 2025, at the Intercontinental Dhaka, by Md Ishtiak Hossain, Cultural Correspondent at UNB and Dhaka Courier and Umran Chowdhury, Research Associate at the Cosmos Foundation and Bay of Bengal Institute, also accompanied by UNB and Dhaka Courier Photojournalists Md Rakibul Hasan and Tahiyat Nazifa Noor.